ATTENBOROUGH FAMILY HISTORY
Elizabeth Rose (nee Attenborough)
By Wendy Western. Granddaughter
Elizabeth Rose (nee Attenborough)
By Wendy Western. Granddaughter
The A-Z story of Melbourne's suburbs | Herald Sun
Jan 7, 2014 - Below is an A-Z list of Melbourne suburbs and their origins. ..... The name of a house Thomas Attenborough built in the area in the late 1850s. ..... Called the estate Nobel Park but it was soon transformed into Noble Park after...
According to the "Place Names of Notts.," the name meant either "the burh of the Endings," or "the burh of Eadda."
When the Angles came up the Trent, about, or shortly after the year 600, the first location in the district practicable for them to build on, above the boggy land near the river, would be the ancient sandy loam and gravel terrace on which the church and village now stand, and by which the Erewash, or one of its branches, then flowed.
In the Saxon period the burh was a more organized place than the township. It may be, therefore, that the chief man lived here, and that in some form his house was defensible, or fortified, a private stronghold with associated local jurisdiction, and the church was near to his house, the two districts being parts of the old parish, and the manors divided, but joined for the maintenance of one priest. Traces of an old moat may be seen on the south and west of the church and adjacent house.
Nana’s 3rd Great Grand father
Thomas Attenborough born about 1754
Married: Ann Oakland on 3rd October 1775 in St Mary's Nottingham, Nottinghamshire England
Died About 23 Nov 1819 Nottingham
Buried 28th November, 1819 Nottingham.
Children John (b1779) & Thomas
Marcus Oakland tree information from Genes reunited March 2010 Marcus Oakland is descended from Ann Oakland (who married Thomas Attenborough b 1754) brother John
Nana’s 2nd Great Grand father
John Attenborough born 1779
Married: Elizabeth Fish, daughter of John Fish and Hannah Hall on 2 7th December 1802 in St Nicholas, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Elizabeth Fish was born about Jan 1778 in Arnold, Nottinghamshire, England.
Baptised: 11 April 1780 in St Marys, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England.
Died: 5th December 1847, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Buried: 12 December 1847 at St Marys Nottingham, Nottinghamshire e, England.
Children: John (b1804) Martha (b1809) Sarah (b1810) Richard (b1812) Mary (b1814) Charlotte (b1818)
Nana's Great Grand father
John Attenborough born about 1804
Born Nottinghamshire, England. Civil Parish St Mary. County Nottinghamshire England. Sub Registration St Mary. Address Sneinton Fields Sub registration district - St Ann. John was a Labourer
Married: Mary Bates born at Leistershire Keys. She was a Seamer.
Children: William (b1827) John (b1832) Labourer later became a Bricklayer. Thomas (b 1837) Book Binders Apprentice.
Nana’s Grand father
John Attenborough born 1832
Born: Nottinghamshire, England. Parish of St Mary Nottinghamshire.
Married: Eliza Morley (b1835) Lenton Nottinghamshire (d 2nd Sept 1903) Nottingham
Died: 6th January 1908 Nottingham Nottinghamshire England
Buried: 11 January 1908 at General Cemetery Canning Circus, Nottingham.
They lived at
1861 Dickenson Street Nottingham St Mary's
1871 Academy Place, Basford, Nottingham
1881 30 Crown Street Nottingham
1891 13 Crown Street Nottingham
1901 13 Crown Street Nottingham
Children: Eliza (b1856) Edwin 1859. Walter (b1862) Hannah 12th April 1867 Aust. John (b1871) Charles (b1874) Ada (b1877)
Nana (Elizabeth Rose nee Attenborough) told me that a Great Uncle, a black sheep of the family who came to Australia on one of the first ships, settled in Qld where he grew sugar cane. Apparently becoming quite wealthy.
My Mum (Dorothy, Nana’s daughter) told me of a family member on Nana Roses side that came to Australia (husband & wife) I think to Victoria's Gold fields. This lady one day asked her husband if he would go back to England if he could. He said yes. She promptly placed a sock containing many gold sovereigns on the table. They returned to England.
It was Nana's grandparents John & Eliza, and their 3 children that ventured to Australia. They left London on the 18th June 1865, as assisted immigrants. John aged 33 Eliza aged 29 Eliza aged 9 Edwin aged 6 Walter aged 3. They set sail on the ship 'Empress of the seas’ arriving in 'Kepple Bay' on the 24th September 1865
Captain - David Davies. MD Mr. Gage
Cabin Passengers - Mr Watle & Mr. Hutchinson
Embarked - 496
Deaths - 24
Births - 6
Landed - 478 = 400 1/2 snr Adults.
It is believed that they lived in Marlborough, Queensland, for a few years.
Nana's Aunty Hannah was born in Australia 12th April 1867 in Queensland. It was Nana’s Grandmother Eliza, who had squirreled away the sovereigns making it possible for them to return to England. They returned to England approximately 1871 when Nana's Grandmother Eliza gave birth to John, Just before the 1871 Census, and then in 1874 Charles was born. John was listed as 6 months old on the 1871 Census but does not appear on the 1881 Census. It appears that John may have died young. Hannah would have been only 3 years old and it seems Eliza may have been pregnant with john. It would have been a huge journey for the family and especially Hannah and Eliza.
There is a “List of unclaimed letters for the month of April 1865"
List General Post Office Brisbane 28th May 1865. John Attenborough, Rockhampton, UK and another "List of unclaimed letters for the month of June 1865"
"List General Post Office Brisbane 28th May 1865." John Attenborough, Banana, UK
It is unclear whether the unclaimed letter was from Nana's Grandfather for a relative already in Australia OR more likely from a relative in Australia to Nana's Grandfather because the unclaimed letter lists are April and June 1865, the letter dated May 1865 and the "Empress of the seas" did not dock till SEPTEMBR 1865.
Is this person the Black Sheep Nana used to talk about?? And is it possibly he was Johns brother or Uncle?
Nana’s dad, Edwin Attenborough (b 1859 d 1937) was born in Sneiton Nottingham Nottinghamshire England and died on 12th November 1937 aged 77 in Nottingham, and was Buried 17 November 1937 at the General Cemetery, Canning Circus, Nottingham.
Apart from 3 years in Australia as a child, Edwin grew up in Nottingham and in his early working life, was a general Labourer and then became a Bricklayer. He lived at Sneinton in Nottingham with his parents until his marriage to Elizabeth (Eliza) Orton Thompson (b1862) on 5th June 1881 in St Ann's Nottingham.
I know little of Nana's mum Eliza (nee Thompson) except for Nana's tales of how when Nana was only young, not even 10 I believe, she used to have to wash and dress her mum each day and generally care for her needs as her poor mum was crippled with arthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis. She was so bad that often she would say to Nana 'don't let them break my legs when I die'. So she was buried in a little coffin built to accommodate her bent body. Nana's life as a young girl must have been hard indeed.
My Nana Rose (Elizabeth Attenborough) was born in Gedling Nottingham, Nottinghamshire on the 22nd September 1889 the 3rd eldest of 8 children. Eliza (b 1882) was the eldest, then Norman (b 1884) then Nana (b 1889), Lilly (b 1897) & Albert (b 1899), then Ernest (b 1901). There were 2 other brothers, another Ernest who was possibly the 6th child born who died at birth before Ernest (b1901) and a little boy Charles, who also sadly died, at 1 year old.
Dear Nana passed away on 29 September 1990, Croydon North, Victoria, Australia in a little 2 room granny flat behind my Mum and Dad's house in Croydon North. She was 101. She was always beautifully groomed, happy, was great company sharing stories of her youth and growing up in England, her marriage to John Butler Rose, coming to Australia and her home in Lilydale till she moved into the Granny flat in 1967, after the death of her husband John Butler Rose. On the 29th September Nana was found laying on her bed, groomed and dressed in her best gear, laying peacefully with her hands folded on her chest. She used to say to me 'every new day is a blessing, and I am still here' I guess she knew when she was at peace with her lot and ready to go.
Nana's life was a long and interesting one.
I particularly remember how Nana used to love to sing. She had a lovely voice. Nana often sang, sometimes at the piano, at major family gatherings such as weddings when I was growing up. One day as a young woman, Nana was invited by a wealthy 'patron of the arts' to go on the stage. Her family were outraged. She laughingly told me that who knows if her family had agreed for a stage career for her 'that perhaps I could have married a man with a coach and six white matched horses'. The 'Patron' must have been rich and handsome.
I believe Nana started working in the Lace industry quite young and leant many skills, eventually at quite a young age becoming an overseer.
Nana's Niece Audrey June Attenborough recalls staying with Nana and Grandad with her sister Iris and seeing Nana at home, trimming huge rolls of fine muslin with lovely flowery embroidery on. She thought they were so beautiful and imagined the gorgeous dresses they would be made up into. June tells "One day Aunty was busy or may have gone out and left us with Uncle Jack. We wandered into the front room where some of the lovely rolls of beautiful muslin were on the table waiting to be trimmed. Thinking we would ‘help’!? We picked up the scissors and did some trimming!! When she came in we were definitely in pretty hot water, told not to touch it again and each provided with a square of white cotton to hem and make hankies. The other memory is when we went for a walk down the lane nearby and picked an armful of May blossom, when we took it back, Aunty said we must leave it outside as it was unlucky to have May blossom in the house!
A little of the Nottingham Lace Industry.
In 1897 Nottingham was granted the status of city, and the census of 1901 showed the population was 240,000. There were 178 lace makers, many of them in the 30 tenement factories By contrast, there were 249 lace manufacturers and over 200 of these were in the Lace Market or close by. The lace industry in the town of Nottingham employed over 20,000 people, the majority of them women. Their products were classed under three headings - Leavers lace for millinery, dresses and other ornamental uses, the curtain branch and the plain net branch.
Nana was always very house proud and everything was always spotless even if it was old and a bit shabby she would make it look lovely. As a young married woman Nana was very proud of the fact that her front stoop was the whitest in the street. Cleaned each morning with a stone of some kind.
Like most women of that era Nana had really, really long hair and she found it was getting increasingly difficult to do up her hair each day and attach her hat. It seemed to bounce around on her head. It was the 'twenties' so she had her hair bobbed. She sadly told me that Grandad didn't speak to her for weeks but couldn't help herself grinning and having a chuckle.
Nana had a 100th Birthday celebration at Croydon North and she quipped with a cheeky grin and Sparkling eyes, ' 21 today' as congratulations, flowers, and cards poured in from well wishes Australia wide. Also receiving the 'Telegram from the Queen’. She attributed her longevity to a sense of humour and that she didn't smoke or drink. She was an amazing lady.
Nana married John Butler Rose on Christmas Day 25 December 1913 in St Judes Church Mapperley Plains, Nottingham, son of Charles Rose and Lucy Butler. They married on Christmas day because that was the only day they could close the Tobacconist shop Grandad owned. From that day onwards Grandad always called Nana 'Lady"
Nana & Grandad Roses house in England where they lived until they left to come to Australia.
remembered by Brenda Swannack (nee Greenwood)
" Nana Roses home was at Cropwell Bishop. I remember rows of cottages with lovely gardens full of fruit and vegetables, which were carefully stored for winter. The houses had sloping roofs to shed snow, very large kitchen and lounge downstairs. A sunken pantry stored with bottled fruit and vegetables for winter. Two bedrooms upstairs and one large main bedroom down stairs. Glass house along the back of the house, to shed wet clothes and boots, and with a heated 'pen' to raise baby chickens. That was my job, to feed the chickens and care for them (during the war evacuation). Also put news paper in wellington boots to help them dry out. I also helped Grandad feed the pig. I was terrified, it was huge, but didn't mind the babies, all destined for the table. I was sent to my room on killing day. Forbidden to watch, but did, and couldn't eat pork for ages. "
( Here I hope to insert information on Grandad Rose’s family and Ancestors)
Grandad’s middle name, Butler, was the same as his mother’s maiden name. John Butler was a keen swimmer and I believe he swam the marathon on the Thames in England for a few years. He won medals for his swimming. He worked out at the local Gym and did weight lifting with his brother Charles. Known to friends and family as Jack.
Grandad was in the first WW (1914 1918) and I believe he was a Private in South Notts Hussars. 590. Grandad served in Malta and Gallipoli in the cavalry in Egypt and it is believed to have been involved in some way with the sack of Louvain (Leuven, France) as he named his daughter Dorothy Louvain in honour of the sacked city. Dorothy was born on the 22nd November 1914 while grandad was away at war. When Grandad returned home after the war my Mum, Dorothy, at about 4 years old was extremely shy of and even afraid of the strange man in the house. Apparently while concealing herself in a door way would point and say "Dat Man” Must have been sad for Nana and Grandad.
Grandad told me stories of the war but only the funny or innocuous ones. He was a proud cavalry man and loved his horses all his life. He said they had to often wrap their feet and the horses feet in their clothes, as the sand in the desert was burning. Sometimes when they could, as they moved about, they walked on the pipe line to help keep off the heat. There was only one time he told me of a horrible incident. They were riding two a breast in formation in the sand, when out of the blue with no warning, a cannon ball shot across in front of Grandad just as his horse stumbled. The ball took the top half of his mate clean off and his horse kept going with its grisly rider. If not for the horses stumble Grandad would have died then too. A horrible battle followed with many deaths but he never ever went into details, if indeed he mentioned fighting at all.
I remember Grandad telling me about how as a young lad he worked in the coal mines 'down pit'. I understand as a boy he looked after the ventilation air movement, sitting alone in the dark. He told me one time how he took up smoking cigars, "as a nipper” and after a shift down the mine was walking home smoking and was met by a family member walking towards him (his father I think). He thought quickly and put the cigar, and hand, in his pocket trying not to set himself alight. It was uncomfortable and getting hotter by the minute, and he had to keep a straight face and not fidget. He must have succeeded as he was not discovered at that time. I only ever saw him smoke Cigars which he did right up till he died. Although I also know he smoked 'players' cigarettes that came in a tin lined with silver paper. When I stayed with them I had the honour of making granddads cigarettes in a special tin. You laid down the paper, filled with tobacco, and then shut the lid. Hey presto, a cigarette. And with a big cheeky grin he always faithfully smoked the cigarettes I made for him, despite the bumps and bits of tobacco hanging out.
WW 2. Grandad was in the Home Guard.
WW1. South Notts Hussars 590. (Sherwood Foresters?)
Remembrances of Grandad Rose
by Colin Greenwood Grandson
Grandad taught me to keep my stirrup straps long and to sit high in the saddle. To keep my stomach in, chest out & chin up for Grandad Rose was a Cavalry Officer. His regiment was the SHERWOOD FORESTERS. He served in Palestine against the Turks & his skill at Tent pegging was formidable. He swam in the Dead Sea where the salt gives the body unusual buoyancy. He showed me photographs that were yellow with age, of Harem girls, Egypt, the pyramids, the sphinx and Palestine.
He had a very good understanding of the Bible, World affairs & Science Fictions roll & its correct place in the order of things. He said he knew what it was all about.
He made all his own tools & at one time worked making wooden framed telephones. He also invented some improvements to the lace machines. Nanna once said that Grandad was never shot in any of the wars because to him it was all an adventure.
I think he was a policeman at one time. I do know he held a position of authority in a "school for naughty boys" as they (Nana & Grandad) referred to the reform school. I think they had a great deal of love for them. Nana would say "Oh Jack they were a rum lot". Grandad could Box & taught the "rum lot".
It was Grandad who said to Dad (Frederick Greenwood) at Calverton that he had been thinking of going to Australia. So another adventure that affected all our lives.
He was a coal miner much of his life & Nana often said she was still digging coal out of Grandad's back years later. As a miner his main job was the care & allotment of the pit ponies who go blind in the perpetual darkness because they are never brought to the surface. For this he received 8 shillings & 6 pence a week.
He also grew his own tobacco & showed me how to make cigars. Nana would say "Jack you shouldn't show him that...." It’s all right Lady. Colin.
It was Grandad who said to my Dad (Frederick Greenwood) at Calverton that he had been thinking of going to Australia. So another adventure that affected all our lives.
Nana & Grandad arrived in Australia in 1952 on the S.S. Oransay before the rest of the family, and settled at Ringwood in Melbourne for a short time before moving to a home in Lilydale.
Nana's Niece Audrey June Attenborough, known as June, remembers when she was about 10 years old, Nana and Grandad coming to their home in the Midlands to say 'goodbye' before setting off with their family to emigrate to Australia, and feeling sad that we would not see them again! In actual fact she did see them again years later when Nana and Grandad visited England. About 1973 or 4. At that time Nana visited Junes father (Albert) and stayed a week with him and June’s stepmother. She also visited Iris and June and families.
My Mum and Dad, my elder sister Brenda and her Fiancé Eric Peter Swannack, my 2 brothers, my big brother Frederick Keith and little brother Colin Arthur Irvine and me, Wendy, left England on the 'Otranto'. Uncle John (mums brother) also sailed with us. We sailed January 1st 1952 and arrived in Melbourne February 7th 1952 the night after King George passed away... I turned 3 in the April. . When we docked in Melbourne the family disembarked and stayed in a hotel for some weeks. Mum and Dad bought a house at Mitcham, Victoria, which was not quite finished, so no one looked for work until it was finished about six weeks later.
Uncle Dennis, Aunty Daise and 2 daughters Denise and Carol sailed from Tilbury England on the 10th May 1952. They Arrived Melbourne 18th June 1952 Uncle John picked them up from the port and took them to the house at Lilydale.
Aunty Eunice and Uncle Ken and Cousin Barry sailed to Australia on the Otranto arriving Sydney in November 1952 9 month after the family. Ken was working at the Brush Engineering Company in Longborough in England and was able to get a transfer to Sydney at British Oil Engines.
I recall sitting on the floor against the wall under the window of an old brown weathered wooden house, with my 2 cousins Denise and Carol (Uncle Dennis's 2 girls). The grownups discussed 'stuff' and I can only assume they were potential buyers of this place to be there new home in Australia. That room was to become the lounge room of a house where I spent many happy hours and where Nana and Grandad lived until Grandad's death.
Uncle John picked Uncle Dennis and family and took them to Lilydale. Apparently the house was a big shock, only one bedroom lined, no toilet, no water or electricity and you couldn't get in the only door for mud. The kitchen had no sink, no bathroom and a three burner Kerosene stove, water had to be fetched from the log cabin
Uncle Dennis tells how he and Grandad Rose had a lots of work digging the bank away from the back door, building a toilet and putting duck boards down to walk on.
I spent many happy holidays staying at Lilydale
The house was brown wood, inside and out, 3 largish rooms with brick fire places a small entrance hall with the small kitchen complete with wood stove off that. Nana would move the internals around regularly and the lounge moved through each of the 3 rooms in turn.
I slept in a way too soft huge double bed in a room with a brick fire place that in summer was full of preserves (all sorts of vegies and fruit grown by Grandad). In winter it had a lovely hot coal fire to keep the room warm. Nana would make bread each day (I helped) and she would make me a special round ‘cob loaf' for my lunch that would be sliced into 3 thick pieces, buttered and topped with cheese while still warm. Yum. Straight after lunch while it was too hot outside Grandad and I would play 'Cribbage'. Grandad taught me the rules but they didn't always seem to be the same rules. I rarely won a game but he taught me many life’s skills like a poker face, getting away with blatant cheating and ‘fessing ‘up at the end of the game. Mostly anyway. We also played every evening while Nana sewed or read by lamp light and kept reminding Grandad with an 'Oh Jack be good'. We laughed so much and I would get to stay up till I couldn't keep my eyes open. Sometimes Nana would already be in bed.
I was about 6 the first time I stayed there during the holidays and about 11 the last time. Nana and I would go 'sticking' up the back of the property getting kindling for the wood stove and room fires. The Gum trees in the early morning light gave off a wonderful scent, it was beautiful there with dew on the ground and sometimes it would be misty and in the winter holidays downright foggy. It’s amazing how pleasant that chore was even in winter and in summer it was always cool up there on the top boundary.
When the occasion arose I would help prepare the fruit and vegies for bottling and Nana & I would spend as much time larking about and laughing as working. My special job was blanching and skinning the tomatoes. I remember Nana's huge Dahlias of all colours just up the bank outside the kitchen window and Granddads huge tomato bushes laden with fruit that he fed a liquid chook manure. Some days he would laughingly, with twinkling eyes, let me do that 'special job' reminding me how I had to take care to give them just enough and be gentle with the plants. Phew what a smell. I think he tricked me. He had a 'shed' up the paddock a little way from the house that was full of 'treasures'. He was the very worst bower bird I have ever known and he passed that trait on to my Mum and me. I'm a hoarder too. The funniest thing was piles and piles of silver cigarette papers from his 'players’ cigarette tins. The amount would have filled a couple of shoe boxes. He could always find something in his shed to mend or create anything.
A little way beyond the 'shed' was the large chook run and shed. Don’t know how many chooks they kept but it was enough to be able to provide eggs by the dozens to the 'egg board'. I remember helping clean them with steel wool and setting them in the flat trays. Never saw them after that so I can only presume they eventually made a journey to Lilydale to the egg board. I helped block up the chicken run fence where the foxes would break in and reek may hem among the chooks, maiming and killing. We would set traps which Grandad would carefully show me how to set and disguise, the jaw ones, and sometimes he would let me sit up with him at night, out of sight at the chicken coop, waiting to catch the foxes. Grandad would have his gun and I could be with him only if I kept oh so quiet, didn’t fidget, and was mindful of the safety lessons he had given me. Mostly the foxes didn't come except I remember one occasion when the trap got one and Grandad put it out of its misery very quickly.
My brother Colin often stayed there too during the holidays and we would spend most of the day exploring far and wide; building a cubby house fit for a king by weaving thin flexible living gum trees into a round house, which took about 8 weeks. I wonder how the trees grew and what it looks like now 60 years on; trying weight lifting with the rail carriage wheels and axils he had. No idea where these came from. I just remember struggling to lift one like the professional men getting it to my knees only, then having to let go and hoping I missed my toes; and helping Grandad build his bridge.
The access to their property was via a neighbour’s entrance. Sometimes there where mild disputes over this so Grandad decided to build a stone bridge over the quite steep gully and create the access and road up the hill. It was a life’s work and a marvel of engineering. He was so strong. In his 60's I have seen him wrap his arms around a huge boulder that his fingers couldn't meet around it, and lift, carry and place it in its place on the bridge. I used to help too, being his TA and probable all round pest getting in his way.
I was 18 when Grandad died and I was devastated. Life changed then for Nana too who moved into a bungalow at the back of Mum & Dads house at Croydon North where she lived happily until just after her 101st birthday. Nana never seemed to change. She remained a loving kind sole all her life and was always happy to see me when I popped in most days for a chat and a cuppa, until I married and moved to WA.
Nana and Grandad were two wonderful, loving, happy people of the 'old school'. I loved them both dearly and am so happy to have these memories.
NANA & GRANDAD'S CHILDREN
Dorothy Louvaine, b. 22 November 1914, Basford, Carlton, Nottingham,, England. My Mum Vera, b. 1917. Who died very young?
Eunice b. 19 September 1919, Nottingham North East England.
John Butler, b. 3 March 1926; d. 1994.
Charles Dennis, b. 22 September 1927. d 6th August 2008 aged 80
DOROTY LOUVAINE ROSE
DOROTHY LOUVAIN4 ROSE (JOHN BUTLER3, CHARLES FREDERICK2, JOSEPH1) was born 22 November 1914 On Birth Certificate No. 110, place of birth stated as Gedling Road, Mapperley Plains. District of Basford. Sub District Carlton. County of Nottingham. She married FREDERICK IRVINE GREENWOOD (b1903) son of Frederick Greenwood and Hannah Allsop. Married 25 November 1933 in Parish of St Judes Nottingham England, Marriage Certificate no. TA 859079. Witnessed by Albert Edward Greenwood and John Butler Rose. Marriage Address at time of Marriage "Musslimee House" Oakley Avenue Mapperley Nottingham.
Occupation Clerk. Age 19
It seems that Mum and Dad were ‘Kissing Cousins’ which means related by marriage NOT birth. Phew, thank goodness. Although I did think that explained a few things about the family.. ha ha. Nana's sister Eliza Attenborough (b 1882) married my Dad's Uncle George Albert Greenwood (b 1881). George preferred to be known as Albert. Eliza was known to the family as Aunty Greenie and lived at Calverton Nottingham. Eliza and Albert were Aunt and Uncle by both birth and marriage.
Dorothy Louvaine Greenwood (nee Rose - Attenborough)
by Wendy Western daughter
Mum has always been, and will always be, a large part of our lives. The memories that we all have of her are the tribute to her life. They are the part that will always remain with all those whose lives she has touched. Especially I think all will remember Mum's special brand of humour. And I have to say that some would think it has unfortunately passed on in copious quantities to her 4 children.
Mum was born in Mapperley, Nottingham, England on November 22nd 1914 while her father, John Butler Rose was away at the First World War she was named Dorothy Louvaine. And Louvaine was the name chosen in honour of a Belgium Village that was decimated during the war.
Mum always had her Dad's well handled, smeared photo at the dinner table so she would know him. He did not see his daughter till he came home after 4 years of war. And when he appeared she referred to him as 'Dat Man'. Mum was the eldest of 5. A sister Vera, lived only a few months, Eunice, John and Dennis completed the family.
She grew up in Nottingham where her father owned a Tobacconist and Newsagency shop. As a young girl she often accompanied her Dad on his paper rounds, rain hail or shine. He taught her to Ice Skate on the canal, Rowing, Club Swinging, and Shadow Boxing and to always keep her 'Dukes' up. She was his boy until John and Dennis came on the scene.
Mum was a wonderful ball room dancer and went dancing every Saturday night at Gilberts Tea Rooms. It cost her a shilling. Because things were difficult after the war her Mum remodelled second hand clothes to make her a different outfit for each dance night. She would also dye shoes and shawls to match each gown. One day her mum was chatting to a neighbour when the neighbour says "I don't know who this young lady is coming up the road but she is always dressed beautifully and is really the most striking young woman” and with great pride her mother said "that's my daughter"
Fred, although being 15 years older than Dorothy, courted her persistently showing off his varied tastes in automobiles. A white sports car one day, a motor bike and side car another. She has told me of great journeys from Nottingham to London where dad would 'open her up' and of one particular time on his new Motor Bike, with Mum in the side car, unbeknownst to Dad they had placed roundabouts in the middle of the road. Dad was going so fast that much to their surprise, he just went up and over, through the gardens, and out the other side.
He finally won her heart and they were married on the 25th November 1933. It was so cold that the wedding veil, which was borrowed from a friend, cracked and shattered in the severe cold.
Fred was a well respected builder and as a family they lived in many beautiful homes. The first baby was welcomed in 1935, a little girl, Brenda. Followed by Trevor who was with them for only a few month, then Keith in 1938, Colin was a War baby in 1942 and me, well, I was a total surprise in 1949.
During the Second World War Brenda lived with her Nana Rose and Keith was billeted with the singer Jessie Matthews. Mum did Secretarial duties for the army mostly as Fred's secretary and Fred spent the war building aerodromes throughout England and on Stornaway on the Isle of Lewis, in the Hebrides. He designed, then built in Scotland, special oil baths for the burnt pilots.
One day Mum was on her way by train to rejoin Dad in the Hebrides. At the Scottish Border, on the platform in front of everyone, she was detained as her pass was dated yesterday, not the day she was travelling. After some polite enquiries by the authorities, she was promptly marched away, sandwiched between 2 burley kilt-swinging Scott's who were complete with side arms. Never to be seen again she thought. As she used to say "they shoot spies you know". Eventually, all was rectified and she was allowed to continue her journey.
Other things she told the family about the war were; chewing gum and sticking it on boards at eh side of her type writer to be later used to 'bung up' bullet holes in the planes, almost as they landed and were hosed out, re fuelled and off again with no time to rest or think. One time, she sat working terrified, garbed in Gas Mask and tin helmet, while the bomb squad tried to diffuse a bomb, which was bobbing around in water in a tunnel under a part of the office she was in. A most frightening period of her life.
In 1952 a decision was made to move the family, lock stock and barrel, to HORSETRALIA to settle in a little country town called Mitcham, in Quarry Road. Her first invitation to an afternoon to meet the ladies of the CWA, she was asked to bring a plate. So she very carefully chose the prettiest plate in the house, wrapped it up carefully, tusked it under her arm and walked to the hall. Much to Mum's mortification she didn't realise she was supposed to put something g on it.
Life's changes took the family to manage a Guest House in Gladysdale, live in a little country house in Mt Evelyn while Fred worked as a Civil Engineer, and finally to settle in Croydon North.
Mum worked most of her life but found time to become involved in community life and that of her children's schools and interests. She became a Commissioner in the Guiding movement, shared a love of Theatre with Fred, who passed away in 1976. She was an avid walking enthusiast with a local club, and later worked as a 'Pink Lady' at the Maroondah Hospital, generally helping the patients and arranging flowers.
Mum's happy and eventful life changed when she became too ill with Alzheimer’s to remain on her own at the family home in Patrick Avenue. Sadly her health deteriorated over the years till her passing. Wendy.
Eunice Rose (JOHN BUTLER, CHARLES FREDERICK, JOSEPH ) was born 19 September 1919 in Nottingham North East England. She married ERNEST KENNETH MATTHEWES 21st September 1940 in Cropwell Bishop, Nottingham, England, son of Arthur Matthews and Lilly Phillis Certificate No 707390 Copy
MY LIFE STORY
WAR YEARS 1914 - 1918
My father John Butler Rose (Grandad Rose) served in the 1914 war at Malta & Gallipoli. He was in the Cavalry in Egypt. Dorothy was aged 3 when he came home for the war.
John Butler Rose married Elizabeth Attenborough at St Judes church Mapperley, Nottingham on Christmas day. I think 1918 - 1919 when he came home from the war he had been away 4 years.
Dad's (John Butler Rose) sister Blanch married Fred Torr and when he (Dad) came back from overseas Blanch had taken over Dad's paper Shop on Mapperley Plains with her husband. Dad didn't like to make a fuss over it, as his mother (Grand mar Rose) was then widowed and living there too. Dad had a large paper round that covered all over Mapperley Plains. It took him from early morning on Sunday to late afternoon to do his delivery round. Dorothy used to go with him at first until she was about 16 then I went with him when I was 13. He always too Glen, our Alsatian Dog, with him. He was a striking figure in those days. Always smart in his riding breeches and jacket. When it was Christmas time he would send me to some of his friends (mostly from the war) on the round and they would give me something. Dad would carry heavy bags of papers on his back, which was dropped off at certain points on his round.
He was a keen swimmer in those days and did work out at the Gym with his brother Charles, weight lifting etc.
DEPRESSION YEARS 1929
He was out of work for a long time during the Depression. It was a hard time for most families, most of the Dale as it was then, after the war. Then one of his friends said ‘why don't you come down the pit Jack, as he called him, which he did for years at Gedling Coal Mine at Mapperley.
When we were all young at home, we lived first at Northcliffe...Mapperley. Then a builder friend of his built us a house on Oakleigh Avenue where we had a block land Dad used to garden and keep us all with plenty of potatoes and fresh veg. After all his hard work and determination he couldn't keep up the payments. His mother gave him some money to try and save it. They took the payment and then foreclosed and that was the time we moved out to Cropwell Bishop (Approx 1935)
I'm not sure how we came to move out there or how he could get the house at Colstan Bassett Road, Cropwell Bishop. He probably heard about them and went to see it.
That was another very hard time for them. I know he got a job at the Lime Kiln at Cropwell Bishop. I was about 16. I remember the Saturday he took me out to show me the way I would have to go to work. I was working at Birkins factory in the Lace Market in Nottingham then. I was about 17. Dad bought me a new bike to go into work, with steep hills from Cropwell.
I remember those day, many of misery for me. The long journey alone rain, hail or sun. I used to hate it when it was windy. Mum would call me in the mornings and I now know how much she felt for me when she said it was windy or raining. I only earned about 15 shilling in the early days and it was a shilling on the bus each way. I only got 30 shillings as I recall when I got married. Only 8 & 4 pence when I started work at Birkins. I looked forward to Saturday mornings when I worked until 1.00, then my friend Pat & I would go and have fish and chips at the shop near the Lace Factory and after to the pictures at the Majestic cinema at the bottom of Wells Road near work. Then I would go to the bus station and get a bus home.
I was very shy and reserved. I met a few young men but nothing serious until I saw Ken Matthews. There should always be a happy ending to a story. I first knew I had seen at last the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, when he went dashing by me so often on his motor bike and side car when I was riding home from work. Sometimes I would see him before my turn off at Cropwell Bishop and he would give me a salute. He went further onto Radcliffe on Trent where his parents lived. His father was a a tailor and had a small shop there. I was about 18 when the Matthews came to live 3 doors from us at Cropwell.
Ken and his brother Stuart stopped one day and asked me if I wanted to join them. After that, weather permitting, the 3 of us round and along the great Tass Road.
I would go down to the Matthews and his mother would have a lovely tea on Saturdays for us. Mum said they didn't know which brother I would choose.
Ken and I were married 21st September 1940. Our only child Barry was born 2 years later on the 10th May 1942
We came out to Australia on the Otranto November 1952 on the Otranto 9 months after the family, who were then settled at Ringwood in Melbourne.
Ken was then working at the Brush Engineering Company in Longborough England and was able to get a transfer to Sydney at British Oil Engines. The firm arranged for us to stay at the Holly Oak Guest House at Cremorne Sydney, which was across the Harbour from Circular Key. Ken was sent away as soon as we arrived there that week to Tennant Creek in the Outback of Australia. The town had no power owing to the break down. Ken said they welcomed him with open arms. In those days most of the country towns relied on their engines for power. Barry and I were left for weeks at a time while he was away. Barry thought it was great going down to the dining room for meals. He would keep the waitress waiting while he made up his mind, which amused them with his broad English accent. We were there for a few weeks while Ken was away.
Mr Chalwin, the General Manager of the Sydney firm, had a three story house at Cremorne at Middle Harbour and he let us have a small flat on his property. We stayed there for a year or so. Syd Withear, who worked for the firm, lived in Royric Avenue Forestville, told us about the block of land for sale in the next street to them at Laurel Chase. We built half our house, 2 rooms and a bathroom, and toilet outside, no sewerage then. To me it was wonderful. We gradually completed our home over the following years.
The house at Laurel Chase Forestville is still my home today.
John was in the RAF in India.
CHARLES DENNIS ROSE
'THIS IS MY LIFE'
Charles Dennis Rose. Born Oakley Avenue, Mapperley Nottingham. I don’t remember much about my early days until we moved to Cropwell Bishop about 1933 - 34.
My brother John and I went to the village school. Mr Kirk the head master was very strict. John soon found out he got the cane for poking his tongue out at the teacher.
Roy Musgrove and I were in the toilet peeing up the wall when Mr Kirk walked in behind us so we both got it.
WAR YEARS 1939 - 1945
Brenda came to Cropwell. Lived just down the road. We used to go fire wooding with an old pram which later we turned into our fire engine. A bucket of sand, stirrup pump, ladder for putting out incendiary bombs but never used it.
I joined the pioneer club in the village. Fred Greenwood was the Gym master and a police sergeant came Friday nights to learn us Boxing etc. very handy when I joined the army later. Then one day the American Para Troops came by the hundreds. One did get killed but I don’t think he landed on Brenda’s head. I think she was in la la land, she was only about 6 years old. Poor Brenda, with Brenda around Hitler never had a hope.
I left school at 13 1/2 in 1940
My dad (John Butler Rose) joined the home Guard Sgt and we always knew when Germany was going to invade somewhere. He had orders to stand to. Dad and I was standing under our big tree at Cropwell watching search lights and listening to the planes go over because they thought Germany was coming to England. The next morning we heard on the radio that he had invaded Russia. Dad said to Mam "that’s the end of him Lady". He bit off more than he can chew.
Dad was in charge of the rifle range at the Pit. He taught John and I to fire the 303 Le Enfield rifle, which was later a great help although we had the 303 Ross. The nearest bombs to us was at Cropwell Butler about 4 miles away, one of our school girls was killed, Barbara Stewart. Another friend picked up a bomb on the bombing range, it exploded. Killed Geoff Spencer and crippled George Lilly.
My first job was at Skechley Dye works Nottingham collecting dry cleaning - 12 shillings for 48 hrs, then with Fred Greenwood (later to be brother in law) to George Wimpey contractor at sniterfield Stratford on Avon as Junior Draughtsman. I went to night school in Stratford and lodged with Mrs Hewin in Henley Street opposite Shakespeare’s House, for about 9 months. From there to Down Ampney Oxfordshire to finish another Bomber Dome, this was about 1943.
THE LONG RIDE
Having finished at Oxford Fred went to Stornoway Isle of Lewis to another Bomber station. That left me out of a job so I went home to Cropwell. However I got talking to a man, Jack Bows, he said there was a job with his firm at Delahopes, Prior Street York. He said he would phone the number and say I was coming.
A few days later I told Mam I was going to York. I started with my Gas mask in my saddle bag, you had to carry them everywhere. Down the Foss highway to Doncaster, Leeds, York on the great North Road, n ow called the A1. It was fine when I left home but started raining on the way to Doncaster, I was wet cold and hungry and miserable.
Being only 16 I didn't know how far I had to go, I thought it was about 45 miles, it turned out to be 80 miles. I had come too far to turn back so I had to go on.
The rain had stopped but it was getting dark and didn't know where I was. There was no sign post or street lights they were taken down for the war and I didn't want to ride in the dark, so I sat under a bridge all night thinking what a sill sod I was until next morning. To my joy I was only about 4 miles from Leeds
I rode through Leeds and stopped at a village shop, bought a loaf of bread and bottle of corona that cost a shilling and 4 pence, pack of 5 woodbines (cigarettes) and matches 2 pence. Asked the lady how far to York and she said about 26 miles. After eating half my bread I felt much better. Arrived in York about 1.30 asked where Propr Street was, found it easy and went to see the manager.
The manager Mr Glasby couldn't believe I’d rode from Nottingham to York, he gave me the job and said I'm afraid you have a long ride ahead of you, the machines working at Retford Nottinghamshire. I said how far is that? He said 55 miles, I can't tell what I said. He patted me on the shoulder and told me Jack Bows will look after you.
As it was about 3.0'clock on my second day I knew I wouldn't make it before dark so I rode on my way back towards Leeds stopped and ate my bread. However on my way out of Leeds I saw an old night watchman looking after a job on the road side. I asked if I could stay by his shed and fire for the night, he said you can but if the air raid siren goes the fire goes too. Lucky we didn't have to put it out. I told him where I had come from and my story. He said I was game. He got his supper bag out, gave me a cheese sandwich and a cup of tea. That night was better than under the bridge on my own. He finished work at 7.00 the next morning so I said good bye and thanks. He was a very nice man.
I left about 6.30 and knew it was only about 30 miles to Retford so I thought 4 hrs ride I’ll be there at lunchtime. Which I was. I asked at the village shop where Mr Hall farm was. The lady said just down the road about 1 mile on the right. I bought 20 players cigs and a box of matches. When I found the caravan, Jack Bows at the steps I was that glad to see someone I knew the tears ran down my face, Jack said come in lad, sit down. Jack was from Yorkshire a good man and good cook. He taught me how to cook. I stayed the night at the van and went home to Cropwell Bishop this was my forth day and I had rode approx. 180 miles
Mam was glad to see me, Dad was at work down the pit. Mam had a big pot of stew on the stove. I told her I’d got the job and was going back to Retford Monday Morning. I stayed with Jack and Rollie for 6 months then went home, and started work for A.V. Roe on Lancaster Bombers at Langar aerodrome, then to work for war agriculture at Binsham until I got my call up papers for the army.
My brother John was in the RAF in India and I couldn't wait to join.
ARMY YEARS 1944 - 1945
Report to Winston Barracks Lanark Scotland. 8 weeks primary training, not allowed out of camp my first Christmas Dinner, Liver and Onion Stew.
I was posted to Royal Artillery Driving School at Whitby Yorkshire. 6 weeks driving course, then 7 days leave. Report back to Catrick camp Yorkshire for Drive/mechanic's course on tanks. I got this course because of driving crawler tractor at Delahopes and war agriculture.
My next posting was Knightsbridge London to train as a staff car driver. We trained at the London bus drivers track how to handle cars in a skid on greased tracks. A lot of time driving around to get to know hotel officers clubs, war office, brigades HQ.
Then to 37 Brigade HQ Vange Essex as Brigadier Mounsell's driver. This was the best time of my army life. I drove to the Victory Parade in London, went to Buckingham Palace when the Brigadier was made KC (Knight Commander). We went shooting and Golf, I was exhausted, all Parades and Guard duties wonderful times. The Brigadier was made Major General in 1948 and I was posted to 63 Regiment, Shoeburyness Essex.
I met Daisy at Vange Camp, 1945 and married 1947. Daisy left the NAAFI and we moved in marriage quarters. I got my first stripe Lance Bombardier.
Left the army in November 1948
Daisy and I moved to Lamnley Notts to Mam and Dad's.
I started work for British Road Services, nights, driving Nottingham, London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle etc.
Denise was born 1950 and Carol was born in 1951 and Lambley being a small house Dad paid the deposit on a house at Myson Green. We lived there until we sailed to Australia. We sailed from Tilbury on 10th May 1952.
Arrived Melbourne 18th June 1952. John picked us up and took us to Lilydale. The house was a big shock, only one bedroom lined, no toilet, no water or electricity and you couldn't get in the only door for mud. The kitchen had no sink, no bathroom and a three burner Kerosene stove, we had to fetch water from the log cabin. Mam and Dad had a double bed, Daisy and I had a single, Denise and Carol top and tailed in the other single.
Dad and I had a lots of work digging the bank away from the back door, building toilet, putting duck boards down to walk on. After a few weeks Fred Greenwood and I started work on the Shell Pipe line - Newport to Corio - 38 miles. The longest oil line in Australia at that time.
I bought a Caravan and Daisy and I moved to N.S.W Dam sinking and clearing trees etc. With a D6 Cat Dozer. We moved around Wagga Wagga district for about 2 years.
On returning to Melbourne I worked for Tutt Bryant demonstrating Earth moving equipment all over Victoria,
Over the years we had 3 milk bars, a Dress shop, truck, Dozer and Cat 12 Grader.
I managed Lieba Constructions for Dr Phil Chenng doing Sub Divisions and Industrial Estates until I got sick, 1989
Phil was a great Dr and friend, without his help I'm sure I wouldn't be here today.
As you can see and read between the line - I've been there and done that -, I keep checking my bank A/c only to find there is very little difference to when I first started (still in the red). Daisy and I had a great life together for 52 years. After her death in 198 I moved to Debbie's at Eltham where I still live today.
Charles D Rose.